2h Sapping Comparison
Beforehand This is a repost of NullValue's guide from the Gamepotusaforums and is a series of posts collected as one 2H Sapping Comparison I made a video to compare various 2h sapping techniques with each other. Here's the video: 393px|left Top Left: Basic Attack spam. Top Right: 2Smash until no power left. Then 3Basic to regen + 2Smash. Bottom Left: Power Jar + Smash spamming until no power left. Then Sitting to regen. Bottom Right: Power Jar + 2Smash (infinite 2Smash). Here's a JP video that compares a few more 2h sapping techniques with Basic Attack: left|396px 1) Basic Attack (Top Left) 2) NoPW 21 Smash + Sit (Top Right) 3) NoPW Smash + Sit (Bottom Left) 4) (Hi)PW 2Smash + 4Smash (Bottom Right) I was surprised to see how slow Smash spamming + Sitting was. Spamming Smash without a PW Pot is the slowest way to sap over time. Even with a PW Pot, it's still slower than Basic Attack! The main reason is because Sitting down wastes a lot of sapping time. Even 21 Smash + Sitting down (no PW Pot) is slower than Basic Attack! Of course, if the OB is almost dead, or you can't fight at it for too long, then spam away the Smashes. Anyway, I hope this thread and these videos can help some people. The first video can also be used to learn how to 2Smash (with or without PW Pot) as well as 3Basic. HiPW Comparison Alright, so I tested out HiPW Sapping along with 2Smash and Basic Sapping for comparison purposes. These are the results / data. Note: During these tests, I found out that a Hi PW potion always lasts for 1 minute duration. The Light / Normal Power Jars have a random duration (they don't last as long). Also, a Hi PW potion regenerates 15 PW per tick, whereas a Normal regens 10 PW and a light regens 5 PW per tick. Anyway, onto the data: Avg Smash Damage to OB: 142 Avg Basic Damage to OB: 65 Note: Averages based on 125 AV 2h at lvl 35. Averages calculated using deredere's Damage Guide. HiPW Smash Spam + Sitting = 36 Smashes in 60 seconds. 36 Smashes * 142 Damage / Smash =''' 5112 Damage''' in 60 seconds = 85.20 dmg/s HiPW Smash Spam + Basic Spam = 24 Smashes + 35 Basics in 60 seconds. 24 Smashes * 142 Damage / Smash = 3408 Damage 35 Basics * 65 Damage / Basic = 2275 Damage Total Damage = 3408 + 2275 = 5683 Damage in 60 seconds = 94.72 dmg/s PW 2Smash = 39 Smashes in 60 seconds. 39 Smashes * 142 Damage / Smash = 5538 Damage in 60 seconds = 92.30 dmg/s NoPW Basic Spam = 74 Basics in 60 seconds. 74 Basics * 65 Damage / Basic =''' 4810 Damage in 60 seconds = 80.17 dmg/s So yeah, all of these sapping methods are faster than Basic Attack. HiPW Smash Spam + Sit is a bit slower than PW 2Smash, but HiPW Smash Spam + Basic Spam is the fastest sapping method. GS Sapping I heard that GS does 20% less damage to an OB. Can anyone confirm this? I can also calculate the damages for Reinforced Attack and 23 Build Enchant. 135 AV GS Lv 35 +20 AV from RA = 155 AV MAX Damage GS (+RA) Smash to OB: 189.25 MIN Damage GS (+RA) Smash to OB: 160.425 AVG Damage GS (+RA) Smash to OB: '''174.8375 If GS does 20% less damage to OBs then I guess the AVG damage would be 139.87 without enchants. In comparison, 2h + RA damages: 125 AV 2h Lv 35 +20 AV from RA = 145 AV MAX Damage 2h (+RA) Smash to OB: 177.75 MIN Damage 2h (+RA) Smash to OB: 150.075 AVG Damage 2h (+RA) Smash to OB: 163.9125 +23 Build Enchant: AVG Bonus GS (+RA) Damage to Building: +80.42525 AVG Bonus 2h (+RA) Damage to Building: +75.39975 AVG +23 Enchant GS (+RA) Damage to OB: 255.26275 (204.2102 if there's 20% damage reduction vs OBs) AVG +23 Enchant 2h (+RA) Damage to OB: 239.31225 1 PW Pot lasting about 60 seconds. 2Smash = 39 Smashes in 60 seconds. OB HP = 9500 (need to confirm this?) GS + RA + 23 Build Enchant: 39 Smashes * 255.26275 Damage / Smash = 9955.24725 Damage in 60 seconds = OB Dead! GS + RA + 23 Build Enchant (20% Damage reduction vs Buildings): 39 Smashes * 204.2102 Damage / Smash = 7964.1978 Damage in 60 seconds = OB at 16% HP! 2h + RA + 23 Build Enchant: 39 Smashes * 239.31225 Damage / Smash =''' 9333.17775 Damage in 60 seconds = OB at 2% HP! Any of these numbers look similar to what anyone is experiencing in-game with RA + Building Enchant? EDIT: I did some more testing and it seems GS does normal damage to OBs. It's crazy damage lol. Giants vs Greatswords Yeah it is. The calculations for the GS + RA + 23 Build Enchant is equivalent to a Giant Sapping. I actually calculated the Giant's sapping rate before. I used an average of 600*2 = 1200 damage per Strong Cannon though. These were the results: Giant Sapping Starting from 100 PW: 8 Strong Cannons (100 PW to 0 PW, waiting for 1 Regen tick per Strong Cannon) Duration = 58s 8*1200 dmg = '''9600 Damage (enough to kill an OB) in 58 seconds = 165.52 dmg/s Giant Sapping Starting from 0 PW (2x PW Ticks per Strong Cannon): 6 Strong Cannons Duration = 54s 6*1200 dmg = 7200 Damage in 54 seconds = 133.33 dmg/s Compare these Giant sapping results with the GS sapping calculations from the post above: GS + RA + 23 Build Enchant: PW 2Smash = 39 Smashes in 60 seconds. 39 Smashes * 255.26275 Damage / Smash = 9955.24725 Damage in 60 seconds = 165.92 dmg/s So yeah, GS + RA + Build Enchant really can be equivalent to a Giant sapping. With a regular 2h and no RA / Build Enchant, it's a lot slower: PW 2Smash = 39 Smashes in 60 seconds. 39 Smashes * 142 Damage / Smash =''' 5538 Damage''' in 60 seconds = 92.30 dmg/s GS vs Dagger I was curious to compare Dagger's Basic Attack with GS Smash for sapping with +35 Building Enchant. For completeness sake, I added in 2h Basic, as well as 2h Smash sapping. Here are the results / data: Dagger + Basic MAX / MIN / AVG ATK 122 / 90 / 106 MAX / MIN / AVG ATK vs OB 61 / 45 / 53 +35 Build Enchant Bonus +37.1 AVG Basic Attack (Dagger) with +35 Building Enchant vs OB 90.1 77 Dagger Basics in 60s 77 * 90 = 6930 / 60s = 115.50 dmg/s 2h + Basic MAX / MIN / AVG ATK 147 / 112.5 / 129.75 MAX / MIN / AVG ATK vs OB 73.5 / 56.25 / 64.875 +35 Build Enchant Bonus +45.4125 AVG Basic Attack (2h) with +35 Building Enchant vs OB 110.2875 74 2h Basics in 60s 74 * 110 = 8140 / 60s = 135.67 dmg/s 2h + PW 2Smash MAX / MIN / AVG ATK (2h) 309.5 / 258.75 / 284.125 MAX / MIN / AVG ATK (2h) vs OB 154.75 / 129.375 / 142.0625 +35 Build Enchant Bonus +99.44375 AVG Smash (2h) with +35 Building Enchant vs OB 241.50625 39 Smashes in 60s 39 * 242 = 9438 / 60s = 157.30 dmg/s GS + RA + PW 2Smash MAX / MIN / AVG ATK (GS + RA) 378.5 / 320.85 / 349.675 MAX / MIN / AVG ATK (GS + RA) vs OB 1 89.25 / 160.425 / 174.8375 +35 Build Enchant Bonus +122.38625 AVG Smash (GS + RA) with +35 Building Enchant vs OB 297.22375 39 Smashes in 60s 39 * 297 = 11583 / 60s = 193.05 dmg/s So to recap: Dagger + Basic (+35 Build) = 115.50 dmg/s 2h + Basic (+35 Build) ' = 135.67 dmg/s '''2h + PW 2Smash (+35 Build) ' = 157.30 dmg/s 'GS + RA + PW 2Smash (+35 Build) ' = 193.05 dmg/s So Basic Dagger Attack has a slower sapping rate than Basic 2h Attack. GS + RA + PW 2Smash = 1.67x faster sapping rate than Basic Dagger Attack. As always, MAX / MIN / AVG damage values calculated using deredere's Damage Guide . Number of Attacks in 60 seconds was recorded by using a Hi Power Jar (exactly 60s) as a timer and recording the video. Extra:Dagger Sap Alright, so I actually tested Dagger Basic Attack vs an OB. I took a lvl 30 Scout with 100 AV Daggers and I hit an OB 38 times and recorded each damage value. Here's the data: Character Level: 30 Dagger AV: 100 OB Resistance: 200 Damages for each attack: 54 46 57 59''' 59 59 48 52 56 54 47 57 53 45 50 46 47 51 53 56 53 55 49 56 59 49 55 48 45 53 52 59 55 59 46 58 53 53 MAX ATK: 59 MIN ATK: 45 ''' MEDIAN ATK: '''53 Total Damage: 2006 Number of Attacks: 38 AVG ATK: 2006 / 38 ='52'.789473684210526315789473684211 Using deredere's Damage Guide for character level 30 with 100 AV Daggers: MAX ATK: 119.5 (59.75 vs OB) MIN ATK: 90 (45 vs OB) AVG ATK: 104.75 (52.375 vs OB) So there's the data. Deredere's Damage Guide formula seems to be quite accurate. The tested damage values are inline with the theoretical values from the damage formula. Also, I'd like to add that I did give my procedure for testing, so the data should all be easily reproducible if anybody would like to test it themselves. Gs Sitting vs Basic Out of curiosity, I wanted to see if a maxed AV GS + lv3 AR + max (+35) Building Enchant could make Smash + Sit or 21 Smash + Sit any faster than Basic Attack Spamming (I doubted it but wanted to confirm). Here are the results / data: GS AV: 135 AR +20AV: Damage Guide 155 Building Enchant: +35 Basic MAX: 177 / 88.5 (vs OB) Basic MIN: 139.5 / 69.75 (vs OB) Basic AVG: 158.25 / 79.125 '''(vs OB) Smash MAX: 378.5 / 189.25 (vs OB) Smash MIN: 320.85 / 160.425 (vs OB) Smash AVG: 349.675 / 174.8375''' (vs OB) Basic Enchant Bonus: +55.3875 Smash Enchant Bonus: +122.38625 Basic AVG (+35): 134.5125 '''(vs OB) Smash AVG (+35): '''297.22375 (vs OB) Note: Damage values calculated using deredere's Damage Guide . Misc Note: HiRegen = 48s (12 Ticks * 48 HP/Tick = 576 HP) 58 GS Basics in 48s 58 Basics * 134.5125 dmg/Basic = 7801.725 dmg / 48 s = 162.5359375 dmg/s 8 GS Smashes in 18s (Smash Spam + Sit) 8 Smashes * 297.22375 dmg/Smash = 2377.79 dmg / 18 s =''' 132.09944444444444444444444444444 dmg/s 21 GS Smashes in 41s (21 Smash + sit) 21 Smashes * 297.22375 dmg/Smash = '''6241.69875 dmg / 41 s = 152.23655487804878048780487804878 dmg/s 39 Smashes in 60s (PW 2Smash) 39 Smashes * 297.22375 dmg/Smash = 11591.72625 dmg / 60 s = 193.1954375 dmg/s Note: I recorded videos of a Sapping cycle and counted the attacks / timed them. The Sapping cycle included Sit down time. IE, 8 Smashes, then Sit down until full PW = 1 full Sapping cycle (18s in this case). Conclusion It is again confirmed that any form of having to Sit down while Sapping is slower than Basic Attack Spamming (unless you use a HiPW pot). And as always, PW 2Smash is really fast, since it never has to Sit down. Videos Here's a video that shows 23 Smash to hit 0 PW, then mixups of 3Basic and 2Smash to continue attacking between PW Regen Ticks. Hopefully this video may help people learn how to 21 Smash / 23 Smash / 2Smash / 3Basic / etc. 388px|left Here's a video that shows 2Smash with a Normal Power Jar on. 396px Both videos show how to continuously sap without having to sit down. I hope these two videos can help others learn how to sap using these techniques. Category:Repost Category:Warrior Category:Scout Category:Dagger Category:Greatsword Category:Polearm